evden eve nakliyat istanbul eşya depolama uluslararası nakliyat uluslararası evden eve nakliyat istanbul ev taşıma evden eve nakliyat istanbul istanbul evden eve nakliye istanbul nakliyat firması ev eşyası depolama istanbul depolama gebze nakliyat
web tasarım
selcuksports taraftarium

The WaiWai Bonfire

One of the more widespread intellectual theories about the “2-ch Flame Mob” is that their #1 enemy is the Japanese mass media. This “WaiWai/Mainichi scandal” combines two great sources of wrath for the Net Swarms: mass media mistakes and foreigners tainting Japan’s international image. Mainichi has “disciplined” the writer for carrying out a project they most likely approved, but the 2-ch Flame Mob has yet to be placated.

毎日新聞、「小額で日本の少女を買春する方法」を紹介。海外大手サイトに掲載

and

毎日新聞に学ぶ「売春で捕まらないための11の方法」

So everyone is up in arms today that WaiWai had a story about teaching readers how to pick up schoolgirl prostitutes in a “safe” way. Now, this story didn’t come from the brains of Mainichi: they stole it from some second-rate tabloid. But instead of attacking that tabloid (which relies on the same jingoistic, horny engine as 2-ch), the Flame Mob has pinned the whole affair on Mainichi. And now even Japundit’s getting some heat for re-posting the story…

Begin the witch trials. I don’t see the 2-ch crowd ever directing their anger at the actual shukanshi responisble for WaiWai’s stories. The anonymous rioters are having too much fun taking the moral upper hand with Mainichi and a bunch of foreigners.

W. David MARX
June 30, 2008

28 Responses

  1. Aceface Says:

    But don’t you think putting Shukanshi related materials on the webpage of the third largest paper in the country is already a scandal?
    I don’t think 2ch crowd are against the freedom of speech itself,nor the underground sexual activitiy in the country.

  2. Makoto Suzuki Says:

    Hmm. Interesting theory. Are you the co-author of Mainichi waiwai, or “Tabloid Tokyo 2: 101 Tales of Sex, Crime, and the Bizarre from Japan’s Wild Weeklies” ?
    If not, please examine following. And please prepare your objection.
    Since waiwai started in 1999, there happened immediate 100% increase of Japanese women raped outside Japan, and it is on going. I do not claim this is the direct evidence. But there are also several reports, that some Australian ‘Hentai’ came to Japan, and they all said why it is so different from what they read in quality Newspaper in Japan, after punishment.

  3. M. Nestor Says:

    Well, I think Mainichi should be held to different standards than tabloids or forums, though the irony is not lost on me. Maybe they’ve prioritized some self-examination further down the list of criticisms.

  4. W. David MARX Says:

    But don’t you think putting Shukanshi related materials on the webpage of the third largest paper in the country is already a scandal?

    No, I agree, but if you really want to get angry about “the perception of Japan,” get the Shukanshi to stop writing such horrible lies about the Japanese people!

    Since waiwai started in 1999, there happened immediate 100% increase of Japanese women raped outside Japan

    Hmm… This sounds suspiciously not true, to say the least. Can you give me a source on this? Even if the stat is true, could you really attribute such a big trend in violent crime to WaiWai alone?

  5. Lafcadio Says:

    Since waiwai started in 1999, there happened immediate 100% increase of Japanese women raped outside Japan, and it is on going.

    Since Meta@Tame started, I’ve gained three kilograms.

  6. Aceface Says:

    “No, I agree, but if you really want to get angry about “the perception of Japan,” get the Shukanshi to stop writing such horrible lies about the Japanese people!”

    Well,like I said”the perceprtion of Japan”isn’t the real issue here.Most of the web mobs just want to bash the mainstream media.

    Anyway,you can’t stop the printing of”The National Inquirer” or airing “Jerry Springer”,but that doesn’t mean you want to read that on Washington Post! If Ryan Connell was doing that on his own blog or something,no one would’ve get angry except me.

    And yeah,since I started to post on Marxy’s blog,I have kidney problem….

  7. mozu@ Says:

    It’s humiliated adult women with kids and nurses who have got the most angry at this issue and who have been in the center of this anti-Mainichi movement. I am not anti-Mainichi, but, to be honest, I admire their powers. I think this “movement” should not be labeled simple jingonism, though there exist idiot dudes in it.

    I believe that articles of waiwai are not “translations” of horrible lies, but essentially horrible lies about horrible lies. This “translation” issue should be inquired by japanologists instead of their boring(too harsh?) studies of Japanese nationalism.

  8. W. David MARX Says:

    essentially horrible lies about horrible lies.

    I am not sure I understand you here.

    I think there can be real grievances with Mainichi, and I appreciate Japanese bloggers commenting here. I think it’s interesting to these opinions.

    But I don’t think this is such a black and white issue. WaiWai very sloppily executed a not-particularly-evil concept: translating over shukanshi articles so that foreigners could get a sense of the Japanese media environment. The problem was that Mainichi did not provide enough of a disclaimer about the contents of those articles. And the WaiWai team intentionally picked the least accurate articles to get attention.

    That being said, why is no one in Japan angry at the shukanshi for reporting untruths and exploitative stories in the first place? There are so many bad, salacious articles in Spa! etc., but why is the central guilt in bringing those articles into English? I think it would be fair to translate that awful Jitsuwa Knuckles “have sex with animals then eat them” article into English if there was discussion that it was probably fiction.

    In theory, the shukanshi humiliate “adult women with kids and nurses” in Japan 52 weeks a year, but I don’t see 2-ch caring so much.

    I do not mean to defend WaiWai, but I think the actual impact of Mainichi’s mistake is way overblown for outrage’s sake. They already got rid of WaiWai: you win. Now the 炎上群れ can move onto anger towards “Mega Oyakodon” or something. Or go back to the source of the “lies” and get mad at shukanshi editors.

  9. statiq Says:

    I guess the test question is: if WaiWai was to be relaunched as is, exactly the same content but as an independent site with no ties to the Mainichi, would the 2ch mob still be protesting or would that be ok with them?

  10. Aceface Says:

    Ever read JAPUNDIT before,statiq?

  11. mozu@ Says:

    Sorry. horrible lies about horrible lies→horrible abuse of horrible lies.

    >why is no one in Japan angry at the shukanshi for reporting untruths and exploitative stories in the first place?

    Because no one takes jitsuwa-kei shukanshi seriously and the decent people ignore them as dirty things like Uyoku or Yakuza(invisible to most of Japanese, but highly visible to foreigners). I hate the shukanshi culture tainted with eroguro, but to put worst kind of Shukanshi’s articles few japanese knows on the English site(only in English!) of the respected newspaper have a different effect because of the difference of their audience and context.

    Many seem to feel this is the racism against “Japanese Women”. I don’t mean to defend sexist Shukanshi, but the racist effect don’t work within the Japanese context. And I know well how WaiWai were consumed in certain infamous sites. I saw some bigots use “I am neither racist nor sexist because it’s Japs that wrote originals” logic: a briliant appropriation tactics of the indigenous’ voices. Yes, this is an extreme audience.

    >Or go back to the source of the “lies” and get mad at shukanshi editors.

    The articles of waiwai seem not to be direct translations of the originals, and I think going back to the source and comparing those two could reveal how originals are sexed up or manipulated to appeal to its audience. I have the impression that some additional phrases have the effect of the generalization. But it’s only my impression.

    >They already got rid of WaiWai: you win. Now the 炎上群れ can move onto anger towards “Mega Oyakodon” or something.
    2ch inagos will move towards another materials, but anti-Mainichi movement probably won’t stop soon, I believe. It seems to have already gone beyond 2ch and blogs.

  12. dotdash Says:

    I don’t think anyone is defending WaiWai here. Surely this is just a case of “be careful who your friends are”, that’s all. I agree that it was stupid for a major news media to carry something like WaiWai on its web site without proper disclaimers, but this elephant hunting mentality that’s constantly trying to bring down the media big beasts has something very nasty at its core.

    The only answer seems to be for media institutions and their journalists to adapt to deal with the Internet environment. I’ve noticed UK newspapers like The Guardian and The Telegraph (and probably many more in other countries) starting to do that by opening up and engaging more directly with their readerships, but that hasn’t been without problems either: http://icanhaz.com/telegraph_controversy

  13. W. David MARX Says:

    the decent people ignore them as dirty things like Uyoku or Yakuza

    Decent people should not ignore, but actively work towards the elimination of the yakuza and uyoku. They are not “inevitable” parts of society, or at least, they could be much more minimal.

    I saw some bigots use “I am neither racist nor sexist because it’s Japs that wrote originals” logic: a briliant appropriation tactics of the indigenous’ voices.

    I am not sure a “possibility of falling into bad hands” is enough of a problem to eliminate information. For example, I could read WaiWai knowing what is perhaps real and what is fake – just as you are saying a Japanese person would be able to. I agree that WaiWai had too much influence on Japan’s worldview and that Mainichi was at fault for spreading these falsehoods about Japan, but I don’t agree that information can be “safe” in Japanese but “dangerous” in English.

    I have the impression that some additional phrases have the effect of the generalization.

    I think this is probably true. For anyone who knows Japanese, the translations never sounded like translations.

  14. mozu@ Says:

    >I don’t think anyone is defending WaiWai here.

    I know well. I’ve read the criticism of waiwai written by Marxy. My point is that there exists something justifiable in this anti-Mainichi movement and this element should not be interpreted as usual (fake) patriot games of 2ch or the threat of right-wingers.

    >Decent people should not ignore

    I agree with you, although I am not sure that I belong to decent people. I prefer the minimalization to the total elimination(this word reminds me of some horrific historical events): the strategy of inclusion and integration.

    >I am not sure a “possibility of falling into bad hands” is enough of a problem to eliminate information.

    My point is not that sensitive information should be eliminated to avoid the eventual abuse of it, but that the feeling of waiwai being racist held by many people is not totally ungrounded. Personally speaking, I try to persuade readers of my blog not to use the race card in this issue and this is the problem of the quality control of information, but I’ve felt something ugly and unpleasant in Mainichi’s slavish submission to desires of its audience.

  15. mozu@ Says:

    and this is the problem→and insist that this is the problem
    I should go to Nova.

  16. Mulboyne Says:

    Was Wai Wai wrong in principle or did it go wrong in execution? I get the impression that our host here holds the latter point of view while many of the Mainichi’s fiercest critics would argue the first and perhaps that difference is worth exploring.

    Most people know Wai Wai from the web but it started as a regular column in the printed edition of The Mainichi Daily News. The recent apology by the publisher says it began in 1989. One foreign academic, who worked on the column in the early days, was quoted on a Japan forum recently saying that they used to summarize six stories a week, giving a paragraph to each. The aim of the feature was to present “the face of the weeklies”. He maintained that their choice of story was less risqué than those appearing in Wai Wai in later days but, since I was never a regular reader of the Mainichi Daily News, I can’t vouch for that. One of the stories drawing widespread condemnation describes mothers offering sexual relief to their exam-pressured sons. That was taken from the Asahi Geino and appeared in 1997 so it’s likely that such stories became a staple relatively early.

    There are a lot of features which appear in the English editions of the Japanese dailies which do not appear in the regular Japanese language papers. Rightly or wrongly, the audience for the English editions is presumed to be foreigners living in, or with an interest in, Japan. The weeklies are a big part of Japan’s media environment: you don’t even have to read them to know what the big stories are because you can see the headlines inside commuter trains. Wai Wai started as a means to bring the background noise that the Japanese public was hearing to the foreign audience. I wonder whether Wai Wai’s critics think that the feature would have been acceptable for the Mainichi if it had avoided X-rated material.

    Leaving that aside, I would take issue with the idea “the lies” can be attributed to the Wai Wai renderings rather than the weeklies themselves. The tabloid-style idiom the translators used meant that you were never getting a literal translation but some of the online criticism seems oblivious to the fact that most of what you saw in Wai Wai was actually in the weeklies. There’s also a contrast drawn between the Japanese audience, who are in on the joke, and the foreign audience who will get the wrong idea. David already makes the point above that you ought not to use that as a basis to restrict information. I’d go further and question whether the Japanese audience en masse really does disregard the weeklies as untrue. It’s surely more likely that some people will believe some stories or at least think “there’s no smoke without fire”.

    Aceface says above that this controversy is all about the role of the Mainichi and doesn’t believe that there would be a similar storm if such stories appeared on an independent website – although he himself wouldn’t be happy. I wonder about that. What if the weeklies themselves began to offer their stories in English on the net in the manner of Wai Wai? I suspect there could just as easily be another outcry using the same complaint that it would give foreigners a misleading impression of Japan. As mozu points out, the Mainichi isn’t just under fire from 2chers anymore. However, information flows across borders more easily these days so media organizations in all countries can no longer keep a wall between the foreign audience and the domestic audience.

    As for whether Wai Wai has been responsible for creating an image of Japan as a nation of perverts, it’s worth considering Luis Bunuel’s “Belle de Jour” which was released in 1967. A client to the brothel brings something in a box which he wishes to use. He shows one prostitute who turns him down immediately. The other, played by Catherine Deneuve, seems scared when she looks inside but agrees. When he leaves, she looks utterly exhausted. In the credits to the film, the man is described only as the “Asian client” and is actually played by Mongolian wrestler Iska Khan. Cinema audiences and reviewers at the time, however, generally assumed that the man was Japanese.

  17. Aceface Says:

    “Aceface says above that this controversy is all about the role of the Mainichi and doesn’t believe that there would be a similar storm if such stories appeared on an independent website – although he himself wouldn’t be happy. I wonder about that. What if the weeklies themselves began to offer their stories in English on the net in the manner of Wai Wai? ”

    Either Shukan POST used to have English web site back in the 90′s called “Japan Uncovered”.But I don’t recall any outcries back then.

    Anyway,2channelers are always looking for latest media scandals and I fully admit Ryan Connell is no more than a pawn in this scandal.Those who should be fully blamed are those in the decision making posts at Mainichi head office and shooting messenger is no fair game.However,I must confess that I’m not exactly in the”Saving Private Ryan”mode like some of the commenter here.Perhaps I could enjoy more on this incident if I’m no foreigner.

    “One of the stories drawing widespread condemnation describes mothers offering sexual relief to their exam-pressured sons.”

    And I’ve read this episode in one of those published-in-Japan-only Karel Van Wolfren book,mentioning how Japanese educational system makes youth inhuman.Maybe this was the source of my intolerance.Oh,well…

    “Luis Bunuel’s “Belle de Jour”"

    Three trivias.

    1)According to Bunuel’s autobiography,there are two things he didn’t like and one was Salvador Dali’s wife and muse,Gala and the other was Japanese culture.

    2)Iska Khan probably isn’t a Mongolian.Since that’s no Mongolian name.

    3)”Perverted Japanese client in a brothel”sequence was also seen in Stanley Kubrick’s last film “Eyes Wide Shut”(1999).When two Japanese businessmen desperately trying to sleep with underaged lolita played by Leelee Sobieski.

  18. Aceface Says:

    Perhaps I could enjoy more on this incident if I’m no foreigner

    Japanese.ofcourse.

  19. Mulboyne Says:

    Shukan Post did have an English site for a while. You could access it through weeklypost.com which now serves only as the Japanese site. If you use the Wayback Machine, however you can still see most of the old pages back to 1996. The stories were almost exclusively economic or political with an occasional bit of entertainment gossip. The only time sex cropped up was in reports of someone famous being accused of sex offences. They stopped running it on Jan 1st 2005.

    Aceface, “Iska Khan” is the guy’s wrestling name. He’s definitely Mongolian – one of his relatives just got re-elected at the weekend.

  20. Aceface Says:

    Iska Khan=Mongolian

    Mulboyne,I need to know the source on this.Mongolian from the People’s Republic of Mongolia in France in the 60′s? There were relatively huge group of Kalmyk(minority group live in Volga region who Mongolic language) emigre in France came from Russia after Bolshevik took over,but from Mongolia proper? I’m both skeptic and curious.

  21. Durf Says:

    The Iska Khan/Catherine Deneuve scene is pictured here:

    http://www.imdb.com/media/rm809736192/nm0451237

    No biographical info on his IMDB entry though. His list of roles includes Japanese names, N’Guyen (sic), and “le Chinois.” Is there such a thing as “Asiaxploitation”?

  22. mozu@ Says:

    For example, “Tokyo Confidential” in Japan Times has introduced dubious articles of jitsuwa knuckles, but they have not made me so unpleasant. I wonder where these different impressions derive. My hypotheses follow.

    (1)There is something wrong with the writing style of WaiWai columns. (2)I feel the malice in the selection of articles of WaiWai.
    (3)While I expect Mainichi to develop as a leading center-left force, I don’t expect too much from Japan Times.

  23. tammanycall Says:

    @Durf
    IMDB is notoriously innacurate; most biographical info is fan, publicist, or self-submitted. Actually anyone can write or edit entries. It’s an excellent way to prank your friends.

  24. Mulboyne Says:

    Aceface, a lot of the family are Kazakh-Mongols but I’ve no idea if that’s true of Kahn himself. I see one of his relatives now and again. It never occurred to me to ask how Kahn could be in London and Paris in the 50s and 60s but I’ll try to remember to ask next time I come across him.

  25. steve Says:

    The only thing 2channel have done is give more publicity to the original waiwai stories. They will only spread and now live forever!

    The Japanese seem to have a collective inferiority complex and are far too concerned with what some “gaijin” think of them. Chill out! We know most of you are very normal!!!!

    Mainichi’s actions are an embarrassment and cringeworthy. Long live waiwai!!

    Death to censorship!!

  26. Aceface Says:

    I was netsurfing on the other day and run into yet another Waiwai related entry with link to Australian newspaper,Sydney Morning Herald article.
    http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/japan-rails-at-australians-tabloid-trash/2008/07/04/1214951041660.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

    And here it said.

    “Connell’s troubles began in May with one of his now infamous WaiWai columns, which cited a Japanese magazine article about a restaurant in the Tokyo district of Roppongi where patrons allegedly have sex with animals before eating them.”

    And I hold my breath by reading the following.

    “The piece caught the attention of a blogger called Mozu, whose angry post was soon picked up by 2channel, a massive, fractious web forum popular with Japan’s hot-headed conservative element.”

    Now,Mozu,our fellow commenter and you can see his post in this thread too,is far from an ordinary angry 2ch type.He also has his own blog on French Politics and EU issues(in Japanese)and I’m a regular reader/commenter there too.And there,he posted an analysis on WaiWai and the response in English Japan blogsphere by quoting whoelse but our host W.David Marx’s post on Neojaponisme!!!

    http://rockhand.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/2008/04/post_6f5f.html

    That means:

    1)Waiwai had inspired Marxy to write a post in Neojaponisme

    2)That inspired Mozu to write his post on his blog.

    3)A 2Channeler had read it and started a thread and it went up in flame

    4)Mainichi shuts down Waiwai…..

    My conclusion:

    On internet,what goes around comes around.

  27. From WaiWai Says:

    The following is a WaiWai article.

    Channel 2 forum sinks teeth into nation’s grit

    Japanese have traditionally shunned confrontation. They’re known throughout the world for obedience and
    conformity. Of course, this has basically allowed the few to dominate the many, but, thanks to Channel Two,
    things have been changing a bit over the past few years.
    Channel Two, or Ni Chaneru as it’s known in Japanese, is the world’s largest online bulletin board, according to
    Flash (12/24). Almost since its inception in May 1999, Ni Chaneru and the countless number of threads that
    stream from it, have managed to change thousands of Japanese from docile and demure to fierce defenders of
    justice acting as watchdogs for society or simply crusaders of craziness.
    “I set it up as a way to pass the time when I was studying in the United States to be a programmer,” Ni
    Chaneru’s founder and moderator Hiroyuki Nishimura tells Flash. “I felt a bit attracted to it, but was totally
    prepared to end it if it became a pain.”
    Nishimura admits that the success of Ni Chaneru can be attributed to “being in the right place at the right
    time,” but its record of grass roots accomplishments has been astounding in a country where corrupt, oneparty
    rule has been the norm for all but a few months for most of the past half century.
    Some achievements inspired by campaigns among Ni Chaneru’s minions have been:
    * Forcing Toshiba Corp. to apologize in July 1999 after a man used the bulletin board to reveal that his
    complaints about a faulty VCR were greeted with obscenities from the electronics giant’s service staff;
    * Eliciting a shame-filled explanation from the boss of music powerhouse Avex after superstar diva Ayumi
    Hamasaki complained that a group of disabled people given front row, center seats to one of her concerts
    were “sickening.”
    * Inspiring hundreds of people to get out and clean up notoriously dirty Shonan beach just hours before the
    Fuji TV planned an identical campaign to protest the network’s shoddy coverage of World Cup soccer games.
    Network executives arrived at the beach expecting to film hundreds of people picking up trash on the
    seashore, but were instead greeted by a pristine beach and raspberries from the hundreds of Ni Chaneru fans
    who had cleaned it.
    * Encouraging busloads of schoolchildren to pay their respects at Yasukuni Shrine, where Japan’s war dead are
    enshrined, on the anniversary of the end of World War II. War-talk among the young is not widely encouraged
    in Japan.
    * Prompting a 1,000 Burger Eat Off when McDonalds started selling hamburgers for 59 yen apiece. About 40
    Ni Chaneru users turned up at a Tokyo outlet of the giant food chain and proceeded to chomp their way
    through some 400 burgers in a few hours. True to form for Ni Chaneru users, Flash says, participants
    celebrated the occasion by taking a snapshot — with everybody facing away from the camera!

    January 4, 2003

  28. steve Says:

    The Yasukuni shrine things says it all.

    Whilst Japanese war dead deserve the deepest respect……war criminals are to be eternally spat upon by us all.

    I love the cowardly photo at McDonalds by the 2 Chaneru’s. Samurai would show their faces.